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DBZ Rumors
Topic Started: Nov 5 2011, 11:19 PM (3,210 Views)
NavonWise
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Let's get into rumors...do the Kais hurt or weaken Buu? I say yes. Dabura stated in the beginning they couldn't use Kibito or Kaioshin's energy to revive Buu, but they could use the others. So why can't they use Kibiti or Kaioshin's energy? Surly it wasn't because they were weak, otherwise Dabura would have mention Krillin and Piccolo. I saw a youtube video trying to explain why Vegetto separated inside of Buu, I also made a video explaining this lol. The earrings were made by the Kais basically, Kai magic, it wouldn't work inside Buu because of this. Notice the same thing happened when Buu turned Vegetto into candy. Vegetto retained all his powers, but why? It wouldn't have been because he was so strong, doesn't make much sense. He retained all his powers because Vegetto, a being created by Kai magic rejected Buu's magic, just like Buu's inside rejected the earrings' effects.
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I don't see much wrong with this theory.
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Cocoman
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Badabing!

All Kaioshins apart from Dai Kaioshin would make Buu stronger via absorption.

Dai Kaioshin's immense joyfulness restricted Buu's power because he was literally the polar opposite.
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NavonWise
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It had been stated by Dabura that they couldn't use Kibito or Shin's ki, so why would South Kai make him stronger?
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Cocoman
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Goku says Buu's Ki is rising when he is transforming into Buff Buu;

Context: as evil Boo reverts to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

Then he transforms into Kid Buu;

Vegeta: “…Look…He intends to perform another transformation…”

And Goku's reaction tells us that he must have gotten weaker;

Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”


If South Kaioshin didn't make Buu stronger then Goku wouldn't have reacted like that to Kid Buu's Ki because it would have been > Buff Buu and > Evil Buu and we all know they were no match for Evil Buu.
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NavonWise
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When Vegeta ripped Good Buu out, it was stated he had removed all of the Kai influence. There was nothing inside of Buu anymore, no one was there to give him a boost. If his power increased, it was Buu feeding off of his own ki. The same Goku later admitted he underestimated Kid Buu and should have used the earrings. Kid Buu was never serious when he fought Goku, even Goku says Kid Buu was just toying with them.
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Copy_Ninja
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That's a very good theory on why Vegito could fight as candy and why he split inside Buu. I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work.
Edited by Copy_Ninja, Nov 6 2011, 03:20 AM.
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Cocoman
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Weskur
Nov 6 2011, 02:10 AM
When Vegeta ripped Good Buu out, it was stated he had removed all of the Kai influence. There was nothing inside of Buu anymore, no one was there to give him a boost. If his power increased, it was Buu feeding off of his own ki. The same Goku later admitted he underestimated Kid Buu and should have used the earrings. Kid Buu was never serious when he fought Goku, even Goku says Kid Buu was just toying with them.
Dude, I've already countered every Kid Buu fanboy argument there is so i'll just re-post it because I cba getting into this ***** AGAAAA~IIIIN
Cocoman
 
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"U.Gohan > Super Boo ~ SSJ3 Gotenks >>> SSJ3 Goku (Buu Saga"
excuse me?

"Lol and mat I ask you why you think of this?"
1. kid buu pushed back a spirit bomb full of gohans and kibitoshins power.
2. goku wanted gohan and gotenks to fight
3. goku said "we cant beat super buu like this" meaning as midgets
4. kid buu was toying around with them and goku admitted he thought he could do better against him, ergo he underestimated kid buu
5. the power that was said to be going up by vegeta was never said to have decreased
6. with no mercy, his full power was unleashed. if you remember, majins are able to cast off restrictions and that makes them stronger, like vegeta.
7. goku never actually saw gotenks when he said gotenks was stronger.
8. he was holding back greatly vs fat buu so gotenks being above fat buus tier, is not to say hes above goku too.
9. goku behaved cocky around super buu inside is body. why, if he was so terrified of him?
10. i believe goku only said "gohan can handle buucollo" because of the whole next gen thing.
11. vegeta called goku number 1 and the only person who can fight wit kid buu
1. The 'genki' donated by Gohan and co was nothing compared to what they could have donated.
Chapter: 515 (DBZ 321), P5.3
Context: after Vegeta says he’ll hold off Boo again
Goku: “You’ll sta-stall for time?…Yo-you’ve just been restored to life. Your ki still ain’t full, is it?!”

So basically they didn't have all of their genki available to them to donate.

Also genki is stated by AT to be just a part of someone's 'Ki'.

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Q. What's the trick to winning battles [in the DB world]?

A. Toriyama says it all comes down to 'ki', the size of it and the ability to control it. He says it includes several forms: genki, yuuki & shouki (energy, bravery & true character).


2. For the same reason as the above. He knew each of them wouldn't be at their best so the more fighters the better.

3. In the context Goku is OBVIII~OUSLY referring to not being fused.
This is what Goku says;

Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!…But there is one way we can win!”
Vegeta: “You want to say Fusion, right? Well who cares about that?!”
Goku: “Huh? You know about it?”
Vegeta: “I saw it from the afterlife…You’ve got to be joking! You think I’d perform those ugly poses…?! Anyway, I thought I told you that I’m not going to merge with you a second time.”

4. Kid Buu was trying his heart out. The only time he toyed with Goku was when he drawn out his regeneration;
Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.6-7
Context: after one of Goku’s attacks damages Boo
Goku: “That bastard…Even though he can quickly return to normal, he’s playing around by purposefully drawing it out…”

Kid Buu even resorted to his candy beam;
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Then after that, SSjin3 Goku tanks Kid Buu's Kamehameha which he quite clearly put a lot of effort into;
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5. Look at Goku's reaction to Kid Buu;
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”

What did he mean by 'We did it'? Remember their objective was to make Buu weak enough so they could at least fight him. Only a moron can't see that Goku ALL BUT said that Kid Buu<<<Evil Buu.

6. Is this supposed to be proof? Because all I see is a random comment about Kid Buu made up by a fan.

7. Goku had an extensive knowledge of fusion. He knew what it did to fighter faaaaaaaar weaker than Goten and Trunks and thus knew how strong Gotenks would be. It's the same as when the Elder Kaioshin said that a potara fusion between Gohan and Goku would be > Buutenks without SSjin.

8. It is never stated that SSjin3 could be suppressed. Although he might have been holding back a bit, that doesn't mean his Ki was that different.
SSjin Gotenks pre RoSaT has to be either stronger or around SSjin3 Goku because it remains not contradicted and is supported by Piccolo's reaction to SSjin Gotenks' resting Ki.

9. What are you on about here? Goku thought he could blow a whole in his head and I assume escape.

10. So Goku admits he can't touch Evil Buu and now you think he could take Buucollo? lol

11. Vegeta hadn't even witnessed SSjin3 prior to the fight implying that he didn't see SSjin3 Gotenks vs Evil Buu and Gohan vs Evil Buu so his statement is made without the knowledge of how strong they were.

Edited by Cocoman, Nov 6 2011, 03:52 AM.
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NavonWise
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Ok, well you haven't answered my question. How was Buu getting stronger when all of the Kai influence was removed? No one was connected anymore, disconnecting Good Buu removed the Kai influence, so where is this increase coming from, if there is no more Kai influence? South Kai was not that strong to begin with, it was stated every Kai or nearly every Kai tried to pull the Z sword out but failed. Gohan at SSJ succeeded, so he was much stronger than South Kai. But again, there is no evidence of a Kai giving Buu power, it's actually the opposite. Why couldn't they use Kai energy to revive Buu? Why did Vegetto, a being created by a Kai earring, retain all his powers after being hit by Buu's magic? And why did Vegetto defused inside of Buu? We never see Kid Buu charging up, he was said to be unpredictable. You think he was going all out? Yet Goku is stating Kid buu is toying with them? So when Kid Buu punched Satan, he went all out? This proves Kid Buu is not always serious unless he sees something threatening. The only time he was shocked and scared was when he saw the Genki dama, before this, when do we see him scared? And yes I am a Kid Buu fanboy, I won't deny it, but I am not biased. Now until you can provide me with hard evidence that debunks mines...Kid Buu remains the strongest non fused Buu.
Edited by NavonWise, Nov 6 2011, 04:06 AM.
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Boo was regressing, and going through his buff form was part of that regression. He was simply getting it out of his system.

Pure Boo was also clearly exerting a considerable amount of effort against SSjin 3 Goku. If he wasn't, he would've beaten him like Vegeta and Innocent Boo.
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Copy_Ninja
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So it looks like we are getting in to Super Buu vs Kid Buu again. The simple way I look at it is this:
Super Buu is about equal to SSJ3 Gotenks. SSJ3 Gotenks is a LOT stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Its well established in Dragon Ball that someone with a power far lower than there opponent can't even phase the stronger person, even when they can hit them. Kid Buu felt Gokus hits in that fight, which he wouldn't do if he was that mich stronger than him. Kid Buu is weaker, I can't see how it could be said that he isn't.
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But again, if all of the Kai influence was removed, how would he gain power from nothing? There is no more Kai influence, he was feeding off of his own energy. Well again Kid Buu was unpredictable. Vegeta was confident he and Goku could have beaten Evil Buu or Good Buu, he assumed when he ripped Good Buu out Super Buu would turn back to Good Buu or Evil Buu. So we know Vegeta had more power than Good Buu, so if we say Kid Buu had trouble with Good Buu but not with Vegeta when it's clear Vegeta was actually more powerful than Good Buu, I mean it doesn't make much sense. I mean again, Goku stated Kid Buu is toying with them, we never see Kid Buu charge up or none of that. Goku admitted he should have used the earrings.
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But again, if all of the Kai influence was removed, how would he gain power from nothing? There is no more Kai influence, he was feeding off of his own energy.

It was residual energy, part of the regression like I said.
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Well again Kid Buu was unpredictable. Vegeta was confident he and Goku could have beaten Evil Buu or Good Buu, he assumed when he ripped Good Buu out Super Buu would turn back to Good Buu or Evil Buu. So we know Vegeta had more power than Good Buu, so if we say Kid Buu had trouble with Good Buu but not with Vegeta when it's clear Vegeta was actually more powerful than Good Buu, I mean it doesn't make much sense.

Vegeta was hoping Boo would turn into "the skinny one" or "the fat one", so unless you think he was stronger than Pure Evil Boo, it wasn't a testament to his strength. He knew Goku had SSjin 3 up his sleeve. All they wanted was a Boo they could handle, and any Boo from Majin Boo down was good enough.
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I mean again, Goku stated Kid Buu is toying with them, we never see Kid Buu charge up or none of that. Goku admitted he should have used the earrings.

Goku said Boo was prolonging his regeneration. He admitted he should've used the earrings because he didn't think he would be given the time to charge up his chi while Vegeta stalled Boo.
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Cocoman
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Weskur
Nov 6 2011, 04:04 AM
Now until you can provide me with hard evidence that debunks mines...Kid Buu remains the strongest non fused Buu.
You're obviously extremely biased. Apart from the evidence I have already produced and that you definitely cannot counter [LOL!], I can just use circular logic;

- Goku states at full power he could wipe out Kid Buu.
- Goku states that him and Vegeta are no match for Evil Buu
- SSjin Gotenks (pre RoSaT)>SSjin3 Goku FP.
- SSjin Gotenks, SSjin3 Goku and Evil Buu are the 1st powers to be sensed from the Kaioshin realm.
- Base Gotenks (post RoSaT) >/~ Fat Buu.

SSjin Gotenks (post RoSaT)>>SSjin3 Goku FP

SSjin3 Gotenks>>>SSjin3 Goku FP

Evil Buu>>>SSjin3 Goku FP

Evil Buu~SSjin3 Gotenks

SSjin3 Goku>/~Kid Buu

SSjin3 Goku FP>Kid Buu

Evil Buu>>>Kid Buu

Evil Buu~SSjin3 Gotenks>SSjin Gotenks (post RoSaT)>>SSjin Gotenks (pre RoSaT) >SSjin3 Goku FP>SSjin3 Goku>Kid Buu>base Gotenks post RoSaT>/Fat Buu

Simple as that



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NavonWise
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This was never stated. Nothing is stated. As I mentioned before they couldn't use Kai energy to revive Buu again, so what's different about South Kai? As I said South Kai certainly wasn't that strong, weaker than a SSJ. If Kid Buu was around Goku's level, or if Goku was even stronger at the moment, why couldn't Goku stop Buu's attack when he blew up Earth? He clearly states it was too much for them and he they couldn't deflect it.

Maybe not stronger than Evil Buu, but I do put him around Good Buu.

Well again Vegeta says Kid Buu was stronger than he imagined. Then Goku says it would have been no problem if they used the earrings, and that he over did it because he thought he could do better. I mean from what I see, Kid Buu was never really trying at all. The whole fight he's smiling, etc.
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